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[Originally on Blogcritics]
So Nikhil left a comment on my post about Apu and the 7-Eleven/Kwik-E-Mart promotion. He said:
I see your point about the negative stereotypes, but that’s the whole point isn’t it? Aren’t all the characters stereotypes? Yes, the accent is inaccurate, and the character is two-dimensional, but….it’s a cartoon (one of the definitions of which – from Webster’s dictionary- is “a ludicrously simplistic, unrealistic, or one-dimensional portrayal”.
Maybe I’m not analyzing this intellectually enough, but I just don’t understand why people are offended. I seriously doubt this is going to take us back to “Jim Crow’s America”, as Manish thinks it will. [link]
I’m really glad he left this comment. I mentioned briefly in the original post that the point of the cartoon (and satire, in general) is to exaggerate the ridiculous. When I began to elaborate, I found I was writing enough for another post. So here goes.
It is not so much the cartoon itself that I am offended by. In fact, I used to watch The Simpsons back home in India and even in my early years here, and I never thought twice about Apu. It is only later on that he started to annoy and then offend me. And it is not so much the character itself that began to get my goat. It was more in the way that I saw Americans perceive him – as this funny-talking, dirty, dishonest “Hindi” (sic) who worships funny-looking, blue creatures with many arms. This perception of the cartoon character began to replace reality, and Americans who claimed to be my friends (and some who were my enemies) came up to me spouting “Thank you, come again!” in that bud bud ding ding accent. This is when it really began to tick me off. And, to clarify, it’s not so much the phrase itself, but the manner in which it’s been used that’s my peeve.
I think the point is best illustrated by something I read on Greatbong’s post about this whole thing.
…a few weeks ago I was watching ?Transformers? in a packed theater with the raucous crowd that was laughing and cheering at every point. Well nothing got them as going as the bit where one of the heroes saving the world from the Decepticon scorpion makes a call and gets stuck with an Indian call center worker who with his Apu-type accent and indecipherable mumblings keeps delaying the hero. The entire crowd exploded at presumably this ?subtle bit of racial humor? and I would have also been laughing (being someone who understands ?sarcasm?) when a voice rose above the din with a boisterous ?Motherf**** dothead?.
And then it happened.
As the connection with the call center operator was terminated by the impatient hero, someone to my right laughed out:
Now, I’m inclined to give Groening the benefit of the doubt. Let’s assume that he was unaware that this would be the reaction to his caricature. So let’s overlook the Computer Science Ph.D. and assume that it’s not deliberate stereotyping.
Moving on to the 7-Eleven/Kwik-E-Mart promotion. Given that we know now that this phrase is used in everyday language to ridicule and deride desis, I cannot help but be absolutely repulsed by the fact that 7-Eleven is actually paying Indians to say, “Thank you, come again”. The repercussions of this on how the desi community is perceived by American mainstream society will be extremely damaging. It’s almost equivalent to paying a member of any minority – be it Black-American, Asian-American or whatever – to have themselves say to a customer “Sir, please call me [insert racial slur here]“.
I could just overlook the issue and say that it’s just a cartoon, and a satire. And, to be perfectly honest, I wouldn’t be wrong. But given that I know all this, and have borne the brunt of it, I feel compelled to write something about it and, if nothing else, at least raise some awareness about it.
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19 responses so far ↓
1 Nikhil // Jul 19, 2007 at 8:04 am
My first comment that spurred a new blog post! I am suitably impressed!
Which friends said “thank you come again” to you and meant it in a hurtful way? Do I know them? I hope not!
I’ve honestly never had anyone say that to me before, so perhaps it all boils down to individual experiences? Which means I totally understand where you’re coming from, since I had an ugly incident happen to me a long time ago (not spurred by the Simpsons, but probably by some other deep-rooted hatred this particular individual felt towards anything “brown”). But I digress…
Should 7-11 have examined the issue and it’s potential repercussions more deeply before it decided on this promotion? Undoubtedly.
But look – at the end of the day, the people that do or say hurtful things to disparage any minority group, are going to do it anyway, with or without Apu’s help.
And, in reference to your previous post, the ” enlightened west” may have inequities and exploitations in society. Sure. I think all societies have those problems. But I’d like to point out that we are not exactly beacons of equality and tolerance either.
Watch “Mind of Mencia” if you haven’t already, on Comedy Central – he makes fun of every minority (and majority) group you can think of. Millions of people watch. And laugh. Is this going to turn droves of people against Mexicans, Chinese, Whites, Indians, African Americans? If it is, we should all be afraid. The Simpsons is doing the same thing – it’s racial humor…but humor nevertheless. If it wasn’t Apu, it would be something else. If people choose to hate – they will hate – with or without Apu’s help.
I choose to believe, perhaps naively, that the majority of people that I associate with don’t harbor ill-will towards me.
Thank you. Come again.
Sorry, couldn’t resist
2 The Great Ganesha // Jul 19, 2007 at 11:15 am
yes – you do probably know one of them. but he was doing it out of ignorance. not that it makes it any less annoying.
well, look. i’ve had this conversation with a number of desi friends of mine. i don’t know who you interact with, but there is no doubt that the majority of americans are intolerant on several levels. this should not affect you on an everyday level, but it’s something that i think every desi should be aware of, and not be in denial.
this is, of course, not to say that all americans are that way. in fact, i have always said that america is probably the best place in the world to be a foreigner. and i know many americans who are wonderful, tolerant people. but they are in the minority. and if you are lucky to know some of them, your world’s a much better place for it.
as for inequities and exploitation, i said that i expect it from india. i never said we were above it.
there are really only two thing that bother me:
1. there is a general, society-wide acceptance that the west and the u.s. in particular is tolerant and enlightened. but then you have corporations here forsaking basic decency to inflate the bottom-line. this hypocrisy bothers me. it’s nothing new, i admit. but it bothers me, nonetheless.
2. given the perception of “thank you, come again” in mainstream american society, the damage from the 7-eleven promotion, in terms of the lack of dignity and respect to desis in the us, also bothers me.
that’s it. i really have no major problems with the simpsons, per se (a few minor ones, which i’ve made clear through the two posts). i have no problem with mind of mencia (although i think he’s a jackass and has no subtlety whatsoever, but that’s an aesthetic preference). and i have no problems with jokes about indians, as long as they are in good taste and well-researched.
3 Nikhil // Jul 19, 2007 at 12:08 pm
“….but there is no doubt that the majority of americans are intolerant on several levels”
I think that’s true of humanity in general.
now, on to other topics…how’s the weather in San Fran these days?
4 The Great Ganesha // Jul 19, 2007 at 12:20 pm
true dat! (but that still doesn’t make it right)…
68 and sunny, baby! with clear views of the entire bay…
5 Jasleen // Jul 19, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Every character on The Simpsons is a stereotype.
6 Manish // Jul 20, 2007 at 5:23 am
Mencia’s Indian sketch used the same stupid accent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaBpLetcqXw
“Every character on The Simpsons is a stereotype.”
Nope. Apu is the only one about a relatively unknown minority that’s a crude ethnic caricature. The Scots and cops are well integrated and well known; the black and Latino characters don’t have stereotypical professions.
7 Skepticus // Jul 20, 2007 at 7:55 am
Hmmm.. OK, I guess it’s time for me to weigh in again.
First of all, stereotypes are based in reality. That’s what makes them stereotypes. If Indians didn’t flock behind counters of 7-11’s country-wide Apu wouldn’t be Desi. Similarly if the chance of getting a Desi on the phone when you call Dell for support wasn’t high (and there was no communication issue that resulted from thick-accents on both ends) there wouldn’t be any opportunity for humor on this front either. Great humor (as opposed to just good humor) is something that has an element of undeniable truth in it. That’s what makes the Daily Show’s comedy so biting, and that’s what make the Simpson’s caricatures so entertaining (Flanders as the Christian, Mr. Burns as the tycoon, Wiggum as the cop, etc.)
But here’s what really bothers me about this whole thing. One of the things that I take a lot of pride in is that Indians have always been able to laugh at themselves. I’ve used the Apu examples innumerable times when discussing other ethnic groups that tend to flare up at the slightest provocation as an example of how Indians don’t let that kind of stuff get to them. I’ve often brought up Apu’s PhD. as a trump and an example of how Indians may seem to man the menial tasks but can actually run intellectual circles around everyone else. One of my favorite movies all time (and probably the funniest movie in history) is The Party, where Peter Sellers plays a bumbling Desi. The accent is so perfect and the stereotype is so classic that if you were an Indian disposed to taking offense, you would probably just throw up your hands and run crying and embarrassed from the theater. But in fact, that’s not the case – every Indian I know absolutely LOVES the film (including the ones who come closest in demeanor and accent to Hrundi V. Bakshi). Where’s the difference between Hrundi and Apu?
I feel like this discussion belies one of the most precious (to me, at least) elements in the Desi psyche – the ability to laugh at ourselves, and being ok when others laugh at us. The joke is light-hearted, it’s not malicious, and the Ph.D. actually throws the whole joke back in the face of the person who’s laughing at Apu. If we continue on this path we’re joining some of the great hypocrisies of our time – only Jews being allowed to make Jewish jokes and only black people being allowed to use the N-word. Now only Desis will be allowed to say “Thank you, come again.” What a pathetic state of affairs.
8 The Great Ganesha // Jul 20, 2007 at 9:57 am
i think that both you and nikhil are missing the point (although on different counts). nikhil seems to think that it’s not a big deal. you seem to think that we should be able to laugh at ourselves.
it’s not that i am not ready to laugh at it. in fact, if you read through my two posts and my earlier comment, you’d see that i did find it quite funny, initially. until it became clear to me what it has become, here in the u.s.
what is wrong with it, is that now the phrase has become a racial epithet. i also mentioned this in the post above (citing greatbong’s anecdote).
now, after knowing this, that 7-eleven has chosen to have indians say ‘thank you, come again’ is ridiculous.
also as manish said above, of all the ethnic stereotypes in the movie, the indian one is the least known. all the other ethnicities portrayed in the simpsons are too well integrated into american society for it to be a concern for them. this is why it is a big deal for us. but not for them.
this is our problem, and i do believe that it doesn’t come from a lack of sense of humor, or an inflated sense of self. i think it’s something that everyone should be concerned about, and aware of. that’s all.
9 AmericanTraveller // Jul 20, 2007 at 3:17 pm
“The repercussions of this on how the desi community is perceived by American mainstream society will be extremely damaging. ”
This is the core of your concern, and one which I urge you to believe is not valid.
No number of Apu’s could possibly damage the tremendously positive impressions made here by a single Bose (Amar, that is, not Subhash).
10 The Great Ganesha // Jul 20, 2007 at 3:56 pm
i wish i could share your optimism, but i’m not even whether a majority of of joe/jane q. public even know that bose is indian.
in fact, it’s not unrealistic to even picture one of them shout “thank you, come again” to him as they pass him on the street, while they listen to bose headphones.
if racism were based on something as rational as societal contribution, then the holocaust would never have happened (not that i’m comparing this to the holocaust, just bringing it up to make a point).
11 The Chapatikid // Jul 21, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Quite the debate here. Almost every American dude I’ve met thinks he has the right to imitate Apu for me. He thinks he does a really good Indian accent. Sometimes, when I talk, he’ll repeat what I say back, and not in my accent either. But he’s so tone deaf, it all sounds the same. I don’t sound like Apu at all. Or that other guy from Short Circuit. I don’t know if you all remember, but before Apu, it was that scientist guy from the 80s. In Canada, people think I’m Jamaican because of the way I talk. You sing, they say. But there are still white dudes here who like to make the feather-dot joke. I’m sure you’ve heard that.
I hate prejudice. I hate when people are so dumb that they don’t know the difference between Hindi and Hindu. But sadly, I’m also guilty of stereotyping myself. When I was at my small university in the States, I thought all white people looked the same. I couldn’t tell Rob from Andy, or Dave from Jon. It took me two years to get the names right.
Those prejudiced Americans who shouted slurs in the cinema have Dog in the Manger syndrome. They hate that Indians took the jobs they never wanted in the first place. Can’t bitch now. Too damn late.
12 The Chapatikid // Jul 21, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Oh and also, Nikhil, it’s not about having the bigness to laugh at ourselves. The problem with Indians is that we take too much crap that’s handed to us. The bigotry we face in North America today is not as explicit as many other minorities have historically faced, but that doesn’t mean it’s any less demeaning. And if we’re just going to shut up about it and laugh at it, then sadly, it’s always going to go on.
Somebody has to take a stand and say that’s enough, instead of being typically Indian and slipping under the radar, and taking the abuse, and then pulling out the rug from under the Americans by going and opening a call center back home. Come to think of it, Indians are really good at being subversive, aren’t they?
I don’t understand why we can be a diaspora of such intelligent and well-educated people, and yet allow ourselves to be pilloried by an ignorant public, who only do it out of their own insecurity. Xenophobia = fear.
13 The Great Ganesha // Jul 22, 2007 at 7:50 am
good comments. brilliantly said, ck (as usual). i liked, in particular:
i think you just nailed it right there. this is the problem in a nutshell. and this is why i think we should all be shouting about it. and loudly. not accepting it because we want to show that we have a sense of humor, and not justifying it by saying it’s not a big deal. because both of those (imho) are cop-outs. a friend of mine frequently says that indians have an infinite capacity for abuse. why the fuck should we? enough is enough.
and yes, i remember the scientist from short circuit. and, coincidentally, i have also met him (fisher stevens). and neither did he start doing the bud bud ding ding accent, nor did i pelt him with stale dosas. he was, actually, quite a nice guy. go figure…
14 Manish // Jul 25, 2007 at 10:39 am
Birdie num-num don’t speak for me.
15 Skepticus // Oct 24, 2007 at 2:47 pm
While I love to beat dead horses, I think this one’s not quite dead yet. A recent controversy brought back some memories. Halle Berry got into a media tussle after making a comment about a photo of her that had been digitally altered to make her have a big nose. She said she looked Jewish, and was forced to apologize.
Given the opinions expressed on this page, I would have to assume that most of you would get your panties in a twist on this one. Or is that kind of reaction only reserved for when it hits close to home?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7060165.stm
16 The Great Ganesha // Oct 24, 2007 at 4:11 pm
the response to your comment can be found in the above post and all of the comments below it. sorry dude, i don’t have the time or the energy to regurgitate things again.
17 Skepticus // Oct 25, 2007 at 7:00 am
Actually it isn’t – hence the question. From some of your comments I would think that it would be ok to make fun of Jews since they’re integrated into American society and well-known. But then again, given your comments on respect and dignity and CK’s “we’re not going to take it anymore” rants, I would think it would be quite unacceptable.
On a lighter note, I happened to mention the whole thing to one of my male Jewish friends last night. When I told him that Halle Berry said the picture “looked like her Jewish cousin” his eyes lit up – “She has a Jewish Cousin? Really?”
18 The Great Ganesha // Oct 25, 2007 at 12:35 pm
i suggest you read things more carefully. i reiterate: the response to your comment can be found in the above post and all of the comments below it. “different” does not mean “it’s ok”.
19 Skepticus // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Apologies for getting on your nerves here (although I have to admit, I am kind of enjoying it). Let me clarify. The answer to my question is not explicitly stated in the post or the comments, because there are some significant differences between the two issues, which is why I’m pressing you on it.
I know where you stand on the Apu issue. That is not the issue I am asking you to comment on or asking you to explain any further.
However, re-reading the posts above gives me no inkling on your take on the Jewish proboscis issue. I’m merely asking whether or not you consider Halle Berry’s comment offensive. If you do find it offensive, just say so, case closed.
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